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Smitholm
Rookie

8 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2017 :  4:25:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Getting ready to take the plunge. Any unbiased reviews out there, or are they all advertisements in disguise? Thanks.

tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2017 :  7:52:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Number 1 question: How much oxygen do you need? If you start from any other point you are putting convenience ahead of therapy.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2017 :  8:59:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And you're quite likely to make a very expensive mistake. Besides knowing how much O2 you require, you need to do a lot of research into POCs. Going in cold almost guarantees a poor choice that won't work for you.

Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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Smitholm
Rookie

8 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2017 :  2:13:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I understand both of your replies and agree completely. However, my situation is that I have a PFT coming up in a bit, and I thought I'd do a little homework beforehand so I'd be better prepared to understand what the results mean in terms of a POC. Now, given those facts, do you have any further advice?
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Dave-OH
Administrator

USA
4063 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2017 :  5:27:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only part that has meaning is the DLCO and if you do a 6 minute walk or sleep study. Most of the PFT is about moving air. O2 sats from a 6 moniute walk are the factor for O2 during exercise. DLCO is one for while inactive.

Dave, Forum Administrator
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Sokcap48
Senior Member

USA
870 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2017 :  5:37:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can certainly start reading about the different units, the more you know the better, but know that pulse rating numbers are just that! They could be labeled x,r,t.a,g and have as much meaning the amount of 02 put out on one POC at setting 3 is NOT the same as the 02 put out at setting 3 on another POC. There are some fairly good"reviews" out there you can read. Every manufacturer has the best machine on the market---according to them and only them. Find out how much 02 you need now and when you buy a machine, buy one that will put out more than you need now! Buy for the future. This is a progressive disease and with few exceptions you will get worse not better.

Paul-Ut
The Journey Continues.
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Zellie
Member

USA
45 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2017 :  5:48:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I ended up buying 2 has time went on I could no longer use a pulse dose. I had to get the Oxlife which has 3 liters per min. continuous.

Make sure you test before you buy. I still feel better when using the tanks though, but the POC is convenient when you need to recharge while out or visiting.

Zell
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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2017 :  8:54:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As Dave said, your PFT isn't going to tell you anything about your need for O2 or your O2 saturation levels or usage. The things you need to know are how much O2 do you need to be comfortable doing a variety of activities and must it be continuous or can you use pulse dose. Only you know what those activities are, so you have to define them and then determine what your O2 saturation level needs to be for you to be comfortable doing them.

Then you need to research the various units available and determine if there are any that could possibly meet your needs. The best tool available is at www.pulmonarypaper.org, where you should read everything written by Ryan Diesem. Of particular interest will be the May/June 2017 issue where he compares the major units. Once you've done that twice or three times, you will probably have enough information to begin to ask the questions that are necessary.


Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  12:41:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jean is exactly right.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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Jocopd
Member

USA
101 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  1:38:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Was wanting to read more info but the link www.pulmonarypaper.org does not appear to be working. Although I looked at all the related links, none seem to be valid. They are all either "under construction" or no longer valid.
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Zellie
Member

USA
45 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  1:54:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a link to the many choices you have for portable oxygen.



http://www.directhomemedical.com/oxygen/portable-oxygen-concentrator-comparisons.html

Zell
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Jocopd
Member

USA
101 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  2:46:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was interested in the previous link in the other post as it sounded like something that had been published and researched. Was just letting them know the link wasn't working. At least for me. Tried a couple browsers on different computers.
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PennyPA
Contributing Member

USA
5842 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  4:05:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The " www.pulmonarypaper.org " site is undergoing renovations and upgrading right now. Bookmark it and check back in a couple of days. Jean's link has a period after it so it won't work properly.

****************************************************************
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You canít change the past but you can ruin the present worrying about the future.

The Bad News: Time flies as you get older.
The Good News: Youíre still the pilot.

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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  5:12:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Penny....I didn't realize my link wasn't working.

Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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faybees
Member

USA
145 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2017 :  10:53:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Penny, what do you use when you are on the road? When I went on vacation to NC, we drove down and I rented a portable for using in the van. I use continuous oxygen and the machine was pulse but just sitting in the van, it worked out great. Much better than hooking up a new tank every couple of hours. I could not walk around with it, I used my tanks for that.
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PennyPA
Contributing Member

USA
5842 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2017 :  10:17:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
faybees, I only use O2 at night and have my own concentrator. When I need a portable (altitudes or during that exacerbation, for instance), I just fill my own tanks from the concentrator.

****************************************************************
Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many

You canít change the past but you can ruin the present worrying about the future.

The Bad News: Time flies as you get older.
The Good News: Youíre still the pilot.

Penny's Lung Volume Reduction Surgery

And Our Travel Blog After LVRS




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Gerry-FL
Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2017 :  9:18:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Smitholm

Getting ready to take the plunge. Any unbiased reviews out there, or are they all advertisements in disguise? Thanks.


There is a lot of confusion out there so let's consider this. If you are using continuous flow then 50% of the time you are exhaling and wasting the oxygen. In other words, a continuous flow system must provide at least twice the amount of oxygen as a pulse system since a pulse system only provides oxygen when you inhale. This isn't rocket science. If a pulse system provides half the oxygen as a continuous flow it is actually providing the same amount of oxygen or more. We all learn to exhale slowly through pursed lips don't we?
Gerry

"I want to go quietly in my sleep like Uncle Amos. Not screaming and yelling like his passengers."
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Gerry-FL
Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2017 :  9:23:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Smitholm

Getting ready to take the plunge. Any unbiased reviews out there, or are they all advertisements in disguise? Thanks.


There is a lot of confusion out there so let's consider this. If you are using continuous flow then 50% of the time you are exhaling and wasting the oxygen. In other words, a continuous flow system must provide at least twice the amount of oxygen as a pulse system since a pulse system only provides oxygen when you inhale. This isn't rocket science. If a pulse system provides half the oxygen as a continuous flow it is actually providing the same amount of oxygen or more. We all learn to exhale slowly through pursed lips don't we?
Gerry

"I want to go quietly in my sleep like Uncle Amos. Not screaming and yelling like his passengers."
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2017 :  12:41:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gerry, your explanation has not been my experience during eight years of 24/7 O2. My experience is that when I inhale from a pulse flow unit or regulator, the full bolus of oxygen (the amount puffed by the regulator) doesn't reach my lungs. Think about it. You inhale, the machine puffs, and then the puff has to travel through at least three feet of hose to your cannula, and then down into your lungs, and the whole time between puffs ambient air is filling all of the cavities in your nose and mouth--between your lungs and your next puff.

By comparison, continuous flow is continually keeping the full hose of oxygen and feeding into your nose and nasal system even when you're between breaths. So when you inhale, you get a full dose of oxygen every time. I have tried four oxygen tank regulators and one LOX regulator that claimed equivalence to continuous flow at various pulse levels, and not one of them has come close at any level. Continuous flow at every level kept my sats notably higher than the supposedly equivalent pulse level--and my ease of movement is notably better too.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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faybees
Member

USA
145 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2017 :  07:50:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a majorly big difference between continuous and pulse. If you had to use continuous oxygen then you would get it. I wanted a portable so badly that I rented one determined to be able to use it. I spent a day trying to use it to walk when we were on vacation and I almost killed myself lol. It just did not work.
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Zellie
Member

USA
45 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2017 :  08:00:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony, that's a very good explanation for the differences between pulse & continuous dose oxygen.

Zell
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Gerry-FL
Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2017 :  11:53:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tsainta

Gerry, your explanation has not been my experience during eight years of 24/7 O2. My experience is that when I inhale from a pulse flow unit or regulator, the full bolus of oxygen (the amount puffed by the regulator) doesn't reach my lungs. Think about it. You inhale, the machine puffs, and then the puff has to travel through at least three feet of hose to your cannula, and then down into your lungs, and the whole time between puffs ambient air is filling all of the cavities in your nose and mouth--between your lungs and your next puff.

By comparison, continuous flow is continually keeping the full hose of oxygen and feeding into your nose and nasal system even when you're between breaths. So when you inhale, you get a full dose of oxygen every time. I have tried four oxygen tank regulators and one LOX regulator that claimed equivalence to continuous flow at various pulse levels, and not one of them has come close at any level. Continuous flow at every level kept my sats notably higher than the supposedly equivalent pulse level--and my ease of movement is notably better too.


I don't quite see it that way. You inhale and the machine blows oxygen into the tube. After the pulse the tube is still full of oxygen. How would it get anything else? If you require really large quantities of oxygen it is possible that no pulse machine currently can produce that much. (I suppose) But that doesn't mean the pulse machines don't work. In the aviation community pulse machines are taking over the long standing pilot oxygen world. Are you familiar with oxymizers? They are an attempt to get around the inherent problem of wasted oxygen in continuous flow systems by simulating pulse systems. In short, while it is certainly possible that only continuous flow systems suit your personal needs, it does NOT mean that they don't work just fine for many if not most oxygen users. YMMV
Gerry

"I want to go quietly in my sleep like Uncle Amos. Not screaming and yelling like his passengers."
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2017 :  12:57:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gerry, I didn't say pulse systems don't work. I said they do not produce the equivalency to continuous flow that their POC manufacturers promote.

I have tried an oxymizer and found it to be of no help for me.

I spent a career as an Air Force pilot, so I have some understanding of pilot oxygen needs. How do pilots know that their pulse systems are providing enough oxygen to keep their sats in a safe range? Do they all wear oximeters the whole time they are on pulse oxygen? When they are preoccupied flying the airplane is there any warning system for oxygen levels?

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.

Edited by - tsainta on Nov 08 2017 2:25:30 PM
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Gerry-FL
Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - Nov 16 2017 :  10:37:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tsainta

Gerry, I didn't say pulse systems don't work. I said they do not produce the equivalency to continuous flow that their POC manufacturers promote.

I have tried an oxymizer and found it to be of no help for me.

I spent a career as an Air Force pilot, so I have some understanding of pilot oxygen needs. How do pilots know that their pulse systems are providing enough oxygen to keep their sats in a safe range? Do they all wear oximeters the whole time they are on pulse oxygen? When they are preoccupied flying the airplane is there any warning system for oxygen levels?



Well, When I was still on active duty we had regular exercises to familiarize ourselves with our own symptoms of hypoxia. Now most GA pilots have an oximeter in the center console or the pilots door pocket or anyway immediately at hand. It has also become common as the pilot population ages to turn on the concentrator as soon as you start the engine. If you have one wired into the aircraft power as many pilots do, then it is no problem to just leave it running. Many pilot organizations recommend that all pilots of any age use oxygen at 5000 feet or above.

"I want to go quietly in my sleep like Uncle Amos. Not screaming and yelling like his passengers."
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  12:27:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The FAA requires oxygen for general aviation pilots for more than 30 minutes' flight above 12,500 feet altitude. Most POCs are approved for passenger use up to only 10,000 feet. If they are not suitable for passenger use above 10,000 feet I can't imagine that they are suitable for pilot use above that altitude. These "designer" POCs output 1 LPM or less at sea level and their purity decreases steadily from about 95% as altitude increases.

But I can find no FAA standards for supplemental oxygen in terms of flow, purity, or blood saturation. So I guess it's a free for all.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  09:09:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Remember that most commercial planes are pressurized to 8000 to 10000 feet. Doesn't that have an effect? Otherwise no POC would be useful above 10,000 feet.

Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  11:55:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jean, I think they mean 10,000 feet cabin or ambient altitude. And I think airliners are pressurized to 6-8,000 feet altitude. As you know they sometimes fly as high as 41-43,000 feet.

In the typical unpressurized private plane, cabin altitude equals ambient altitude. So the requirement to use oxygen above 12,500 feet is actual aircraft altitude.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  12:15:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also interesting and relevant is a link Gerry-FL put on the Inogen One thread. There are aviation models POCs designed for pilot use. Gerry didn't mention that in the discussions on this thread.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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Gerry-FL
Member

USA
38 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  12:29:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a relevant article> https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/pic-archive/pilot-and-passenger-physiology/oxygen-use-in-aviation and here's a bit more: http://www.inogenaviator.com/products.html
btw, hypoxia is more of a problem at night because the first symptom is usually degraded night vision and it shows up at around 5000 feet. In another life when I knew about such things, the pilot who was going to make the landing was required to be on 100% Oxygen for 30 minutes before landing.

Gerry

"I want to go quietly in my sleep like Uncle Amos. Not screaming and yelling like his passengers."
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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  3:40:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tony, they're supposed to be pressurized to 6 to 8 thousand feet, but if you've been in some of the smaller planes, I don't think they do much better than 10000, if my oximeter is any gauge.

Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  4:41:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jean, most of the smaller, unpressurized planes spend most of their lives under 10,000 because of a number of factors, oxygen being one of them. But they are not required to remain under 10,000 feet.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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jmrommes
Contributing Member

1791 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2017 :  8:55:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm talking commercial aircraft. I don't think they all manage to pressurize to much less than 10,000 feet, even though they're supposed to.

Exercise not only lets me live, it enables me to have a life.
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tsainta
Contributing Member

USA
1754 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2017 :  01:15:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know, but I do know that it's automatic based on pressure differential. So there is a max pressure differential at which, if the aircraft climbs higher, the cabin altitude will increase with the climb.

Tony-CA

50% of dealing with COPD is common sense.
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